With lidar companies Ouster and Velodyne officially merged, CEO Angus Pacala has identified the next phase of growth. And it’s not self-driving cars or even advanced driver assistance systems. It’s smart infrastructure.

“I keep saying this and people think I’m crazy, but there’s a good chance that smart infrastructure becomes our biggest vertical by a long shot in the next five years,” Pacala told TechCrunch. “The reason is because if you look at the established revenue base for traffic systems, for security systems, it’s immense. It’s way larger than the revenue generated from camera and radar companies in automotive.”

Smart infrastructure can refer to intelligent traffic management, security systems and crowd analytics. Cities might put sensors, like lidar, on traffic poles so an intersection can make smarter signaling decisions based on who’s crossing the street. Facilities could use lidar along a perimeter so they can know when someone is trying to jump a fence line and break in. A retail store might place lidar on the ceiling so it can collect data on foot traffic patterns.